MySQL CEO pans software patents, touts open source

MySQL has become perhaps the most visible player in the open source database market. With revenues now at $20 million annually, the company is eyeing a greater enterprise presence with its upcoming MySQL 5.0 database, which will add features such as triggers to the product. Marten Mickos, of Finnish descent, is the CEO of the company, which began in neighboring Sweden. InfoWorld Editor at Large Paul Krill spoke with Mickos during the MySQL Users Conference 2005 in Santa Clara, Calif., last week, asking Mickos about topics ranging from MySQL’s place in the database market to the volatile issue of software patents.

InfoWorld: What are you going to talk about in your keynote speech tomorrow?

Mickos: The big topic of my keynote is “Scale Out,” which is a common denominator for a lot of what we do today in MySQL. So if you look at some of our most prominent customer references, [Sabre], Cox Communications, Google, Yahoo, they’re all examples of scaling out and adding capacity to assist them, starting small and then scaling as the business need grows. So that’s the common theme there. With [MySQL] 5.0 it’s easier to do that with the new tools we have, with the services we have. It’s easier to build a modern architecture where you can put many servers next to each other to take whatever load you have, a Web load or transactional load or a data-warehousing load.

InfoWorld: When is MySQL 5.0 coming out?

Mickos: We have a schedule to have it generally available by the end of June, but we also have said that quality is the No. 1 priority. So it’s the same answer I gave you, what was it, two weeks ago?

InfoWorld: So it might not be out in June?

Mickos: We’ll see. We are working very hard to get it out there, but the No. 1 priority is quality. So we have no reason to believe it wouldn’t be ready then. The firm promise is about quality, not about the exact date.

InfoWorld: It was supposed to be out late last year, wasn’t it?

Mickos: A long time ago we thought so, yes.

InfoWorld: What happened there?

Mickos: We were just not good at estimating times. Last year in June we hired a vice president of engineering who is now in charge of it, but since then we’ve had good predictability.

InfoWorld: How important is MySQL 5.0?

Mickos: I think it’s very important in getting into new businesses, [reaching] enterprise corporate users. It has features that they will appreciate: stored procedures, triggers, views, and XA [extended architecture] support as well.

InfoWorld: What is your take on the whole software-patent issue?

Mickos: Software patents are detrimental to the entire software industry.

InfoWorld: Why?

Mickos: Because they restrict innovation and they don’t protect the innovator like they should. So it’s just a mistake to believe that patents, because they are good for hardware, would be good for software.

InfoWorld: So you would recommend eliminating them for software?

Mickos: Absolutely.

InfoWorld: Who do you see as your bigger competitor? Oracle or Postgres [now officially called PostgreSQL] or Microsoft or someone else?

Mickos: Well, in the business setting we never see Postgres. And in the business setting more than half of our business is with new applications, new customers, and so they start from scratch. And in those where there is competition, it is Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, and Sybase.

InfoWorld: Isn’t Postgres comparable to MySQL?

Mickos: No. First of all, [Postgres is] not a commercial enterprise. In terms of a business model they are completely different. In terms of software style and architecture they are different. Like I’ve said before, our three priorities are performance, reliability, ease of use. Features [are] not a specific priority for us. And that’s where we stand out from all other databases.

InfoWorld: Features are not a specific priority?

Mickos: No. Features are needed, don’t [get] me wrong, but the priority is performance, and that’s the No. 1. And if you listened to the keynote [by MySQL founders Monty Widenius and David Axmark] this morning, they spoke very much about how it is important to them that the software is fast, bugs are fixed, and it’s easy to use.

InfoWorld: How long [has the] MySQL database been available?

Mickos: Ten years.

InfoWorld: Is there as much money to be made in open source as there is in commercial software? I just don’t see how you can do it if you’re giving away the license.

Mickos: That’s the big question that everybody’s asking. But our revenues are growing much faster than our installed base.

InfoWorld: What are your revenues?

Mickos: Last year we made $20 million U.S. [in gross revenues].

InfoWorld: That’s a good number, but when you look at revenues of someone such as Microsoft or IBM or Sun, it doesn’t seem like all that much.

Mickos: It was $1 million four years ago, and now it’s $20 million. So yes, I agree, it’s not a big company yet, but in terms of speed of growth there’s no database company that grows this fast.

InfoWorld: You’ve put out the MySQL Migration Suite today. What are you looking for from that?

Mickos: That’s for migrating people who would like to get off other databases: Oracle, Microsoft, IBM, Sybase. They can use the tool to easily get onto MySQL.

InfoWorld: For what reasons would they want to move?

Mickos: First of all, they want to move just to test it out, so they do a conditional migration. They migrate, but they leave the old [database] intact. And then if they’re happy with the outcome, then they will do the final migration. And they do it to gain performance, to save costs, and to streamline.

InfoWorld: How does your dual-licensing model work?

Mickos: We have the dual licensing for those who distribute our software, but for end-users we changed the model in February. So we sell MySQL Network, which is a subscription model. So if you are an end-user, a Web property, or a corporation, you just buy MySQL Network and you tell us for how many years, how many servers, on what service level, and then you’re done. [MySQL Network includes] certified binaries, updates and alerts, a knowledge base, technical support. It also has warranties and [indemnification].

InfoWorld: But not specifically license fees?

Mickos: No, there are no license fees.

InfoWorld: Why did you change to this model?

Mickos: Because customers told us they wanted it that way. They said, “We don’t want to see any license fees anymore, we want the pricing to be simple, we want it to be a low entry point.”

InfoWorld: So you have MySQL, it’s a new kind of company, and then you have these giants that have been around for years with billions of dollars of revenue, Oracle and IBM. Do you really think you can take them on, or are you going to have your niche and they’re going to have theirs?

Mickos: Well, I see it as the Ikea model, where we do simplistic Scandinavian design, we sell it to those who need new furniture, but there will always be a market for antique furniture. And people will always pay high prices for them. So I don’t think we are taking away the business from the old guys. It’s just that all the new business is different.

InfoWorld: Where do you see the company five years from now?

Mickos: We are still a small player and the database business is huge. In five years I hope we’ll be a very big company.

InfoWorld: Do you think MySQL represents the commoditization of databases?

Mickos: Yes, I do. I think it will happen anyhow. I think we were the first ones to see it. That’s why we got the benefits. But I think it’s happening with or without us. So it’s not us driving it, it’s us making good use of it.

InfoWorld: So what does that mean for somebody like Oracle? That billion-dollar quarters are over?

Mickos: The days of business that they never deserved [are] over, but they will have the business. There are [parts] of business where Oracle is the perfect choice and Oracle is a fantastic product, there’s no question about it.

InfoWorld: What business didn’t they deserve?

Mickos: Well, there were companies who said, “We are an Oracle shop, we’ll always use Oracle irrespective of the need.” And that’s wrong, that’s wrong thinking. And now there are companies who are saying, “No, we will use Oracle where Oracle is best, we’ll use MySQL where MySQL is best.”

InfoWorld: How do you see this whole open source battle playing out? Where does Microsoft fit in?

Mickos: I think open source as a phenomenon is already so strong that nobody will be able to fight it any longer. I don’t think Microsoft will ultimately fight it. And as proof of that they already have open source software. They have open sourced a component you can use for Windows installation scripts. And we use it in MySQL. But the question of who will make the most money out of open source, that’s an interesting question. And I actually think the most money today is made by those who build services on top of open source. So look at Yahoo, Google, Amazon, eBay, Salesforce.com. Right now all of them are using open source in their infrastructure and becoming very profitable when they sell [software] as a Web service.

InfoWorld: Do you think that corporations have gotten to the point now where instead of looking at open source as too much of a fly-by-night deal, they’re now asking if they can get something free via open source?

Mickos: Yes, they do, of course, and they come to us and say, “We love your product but we don’t want to pay anything.”

InfoWorld: And what do you tell them?

Mickos: We say, sure, but if you need any services, then you have to pay for them.

InfoWorld: How many people are using the software where you’re not getting a dime from them?

Mickos: It’s about one paying customer for 1,000 free users.

InfoWorld: One paying customer for 1,000 free users?

Mickos: Yes.

InfoWorld: What’s the size of your user base including the free customers?

Mickos: Six million.

InfoWorld: That just seems like a large percentage of people getting the software for nothing.

Mickos: Yes, but on the other hand, look at us in the database market. We are already a significant player and we are taken seriously by everybody. And what have we invested [to get to that position]? Nothing. How much has other database companies invested in hard money to get to that position? They have invested much more than we have left on the table in terms of giving it away free.

InfoWorld: A couple weeks ago you talked about the LAMP [Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP/Perl/Python] stack. Do you think that is a serious competitor to Java and .Net?

Mickos: I think most companies will have multiple stacks in infrastructure, but definitely LAMP is now rising as one of the Big Three stacks. .Net, J2EE, and LAMP are the Big Three.

InfoWorld: What’s the appeal of LAMP?

Mickos: It is self-organizing, extensible, [and] scales horizontally.